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What’s the biggest challenge for you as a bartender?

The biggest challenge is people will tell you one thing, and they have no idea what they’re talking about. They’ll say, “Oh, I don’t like sweet things.” Then it turns out they like sweet things, but not the sweet they have in mind. They don’t like the syrupy sweet, awful, club cocktails, but they’ll like something with dark rum and fresh pineapple juice, which to us is super sweet, for what we do, but in a good way. They’ll go, “Oh, this is delicious.” “Oh, you do like sweet, you just don’t like horrible stuff.” We always have to slow down and explain stuff to the guests a lot of the time. People’s perception of what is sweet and what is bitter.

Since you’re going through training right now, what does a bartender have to be to work at MessHall?

They have to be somebody that we would want to get a drink with. This is my third class, helping teach, and it’s not all about book smarts and testing. Would you want to go, “Hey, let’s go get a drink after work.” If you can’t say that to the people that you’re going to work with behind the bar – you know all that stuff too – but if you’re like, “That guy’s a real jerk,” I don’t want you behind the bar. The guest will get that too. You’ll get a bartender and you’ll be like, “That guy’s just a douche. I’m not going to go to that bar because that guy seems like a prick every time I talk to him.” We don’t want those kinds of people. We want all walks of life. We always look for different people, but that one thing is to be able to have a drink together.

Is there any particular type of music you like to listen to behind the bar?

Good music. One of my favorite quotes, Duke Ellington said, There’s two types of music, good and bad…I kind of think of cocktails as music. It sounds cheesy, but in a cocktail, the spirits and the citrus – like in a choir, the altos and the sopranos. And the tenor, that’s the sugar. So if somebody says, “No sugar at all,” that’s just screeching sopranos, and that sounds terrible to me. That’s a terrible drink. It’s really lame to say, but everything I do is tied into music. I’ll explain that to guests and that clicks with them.

Where and what do you like to drink when you’re not working?

It depends. If I’m at the house, I’ll just sip on a nice rum or mezcal, or my new thing right now is Benedictine on the rocks. A lot of people go, “Oh, that’s really sweet.” If you put it on the rocks and let it cool down, it’s delicious. I like sweet, but I really like bitter stuff. Bitter, bitter, bitter, bitter, but I can still appreciate and still drink Benedictine and go, “This is sweet, but I enjoy it.” People seem to think if it’s sweet, it’s a horrible thing. I like anything, but if it’s a bad bar, I’ll have a beer and a shot of whiskey.

Is there anybody you’ve never worked with behind the bar that you’d really like to work with?

I’m going to be working with Josh Goldman. Every time I see him, he’s got a new, crazy, scientific recipe for me to try, and we don’t have the tools yet, so I’m excited to learn all that stuff, because that’s probably my most lacking thing. I don’t have the tools, don’t have the know how, and I didn’t even know all these things that you could do. It’s like learning about this whole new type of music. It’s like, “What? I didn’t even know this stuff existed.” So I’m looking forward to working with Josh. Other than that, someday down the road, just working with my own bartenders at my own place.

Does it make your job easier or harder to bartend in a restaurant?

There’s always positive and negative. Sometimes you want to not have to deal with setting up all the silverware and plates and making sure every course is coming out while I’m making a million drinks. So that part can be kind of difficult, but I like working in a restaurant too because the hours are better. My roommate runs a vodka bar downtown and he gets home at 3:30 in the morning. We’re not making crazy money, but it’s really good money. Our hours are so much better. I go to work at 4 and I might be done by midnight. Eight hours, and I get home and might still have stuff to do. He gets home and just passes out.

If you could drink one more cocktail, what would be in the glass?

A last drink, like I’m dying., or until the end of time?

Why don’t you answer both, if it’s different.

I’d probably want either a Negroni or a Negroni riff, like the Boulevardier, or a really expensive whiskey. To the end of time, probably the same answer. I’m going to cheat and say a Negroni riff.

Who would make it for you?

Myself.

What if you couldn’t make it?

If it’s my last drink ever and I’m dying, I guess my girlfriend. She’s getting pretty good at bartending.

What’s a great simple cocktail that you suggest people make at home, and what would the recipe be?

A classic daiquiri. I love making that for people. Daiquiri’s such a bastardized concept now…People will come into Rivera and will be like, “I hate rum.” “Have you ever had a real daiquiri?” And we’ll make a real daiquiri, at the right specs, served up, and they’ll be like, “This is amazing. This is delicious.”

What are your preferences?

I love making it with the Banks 5 Island rum, that’s my favorite, besides obviously fresh lime juice and evaporated cane syrup.