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Do you have a pivotal cocktail memory?

It was more gradual. There wasn’t some strong turning point. It was just kind of gradually diving deeper and deeper into it as I strive to learn more. But I will say, probably the first time I tried the Penicillin. That was a Eureka moment for sure.

Who made that cocktail?

Sammy Ross.

What was it about that drink?

The layers of complexity, the balance, and it was just packed with flavor. Complex, but still palatable.

Do you still make it?

Absolutely. It’s so strange. That’s a Milk & Honey cocktail, and then Comme Ca started making it because we were taught about the Petraske system by Sammy Ross. I was working at the Roosevelt Library Bar and some lady from Canada ordered one, asked me to make it, and I was blown away that it’s already made it to Canada. I found that to be pretty fascinating.

Where did you go to school?

I went to Granada Hills High School, did some work at Pierce and got my AA. I’m actually going to be going to Musicians Institute.

Which instrument?

Well, I play about 10 different instruments. I’ve been playing music since I was four. I certainly have at least as much passion for music as I do for what I’m doing here with food. I actually can draw countless parallels between the two. The palate and the ear are both a canvas. You can do a lot, you’ve got a lot of freedom. Any way I get to create and get recognition for it, it makes me feel good.

Is there any go-to instrument?

Absolutely. I’m a singer-songwriter, sing, play guitar and piano. Those are my big three, but I certainly play drums, bass and I grew up orchestrally, playing the clarinet, violin, saxophone, trumpet, among others.

So you were at Comme Ca. What was your path after that?

I was basically poached to go to SLS. I was so excited to be able to work with José Andrés and had a lot of curiosity about molecular gastronomy. I figured that would be a great place to pick some of that up.

What do you feel like you learned from that experience?

I learned that there’s nothing that can replace freshness, balance and flavor. It certainly makes some absolutely gorgeous cocktails with the molecular, and used in the right context its amazing, but it’s probably not my style. I don’t use it very often.

How did you transition to Library Bar?

The same kind of thing. I met Matt [Biancaniello] at the Chartreuse competition. They were looking for another bartender there. I was like, “I’m totally in, let’s do it. Farmers market!”

How did you end up at Test Kitchen?

Exact same thing. A new opportunity knocked on my door and I’m not one to turn down a great opportunity. Now I’m at Test Kitchen and get to work with the best chefs from all over the place, and I get full rein of the kitchen. And that’s huge for me. It’s helped me step up my game. When I’m prepping I have so much more freedom and can utilize the tools from the kitchen.

Now that you’ve worked with all these different styles, what would you say are personal hallmarks of your bartending?

First and foremost, I’m trying to balance my cocktails. I’m trying to have layers of flavor and I like to throw little things in there, a pinch or a twist, that makes you pause for a second while you’re drinking it and say, “What the heck is that?” I love spice. I just like complexity that’s not shooting over people’s heads.

What was your most recent cocktail, and what was your thinking behind it?

At Test Kitchen, I have to make up at least two new cocktails every single day, which is an absolute blast. I’ll talk to you about what’s probably my most memorable cocktail, which is the Curred Oaxacan. It’s like a dozen whole spices. I toast them and cook them into some agave nectar and honey. A little mezcal. A little lemon juice for acid, and it’s a beautiful cocktail, just what I was talking about. Layers of complexity with the smoke, and it’s not too much of any one thing. It’s still easy going down.

You have a lot of guest bartenders coming through Test Kitchen. How have been some of your favorite guest bartenders to work with?

The Church & State boys were a lot of fun. Dave Fernie and Tim Heller. Pablo Moix. The La Descarga guys came in. That was a lot of fun. I wasn’t there when Zane [Harris] was there, but I heard that was amazing.

How would you describe your working relationship with Julian Cox?

Amazing. He’s one of the most talented guys I’ve met. He’s brilliant at what he does, a fantastic mixologist and bartender.

What impresses you most about his style?

He just makes absolutely delicious cocktails. He’s never made me anything that was boring, flat or unbalance. Everything’s delicious.

Test Kitchen won’t last forever. What does the future hold for you after that ends?

I’m confident that another door will open, because they always do.

Do you plan on sticking around and working in the restaurants that open in that space?

I’m definitely entertaining that possibility. Either one of them would be a blast.

Would you say that you have any cocktail mentors?

Absolutely. Sammy Ross, Joel Black.

What did they teach you?

They taught me how to balance a cocktail, and the importance of acid in a cocktail. That was the most valuable lesson that a bartender can really learn, how to balance a cocktail.

Where do you enjoy drinking when you’re not working?

Home.

Speaking of home, what’s a great simple cocktail recipe for people to make at home?

Super simple, super delicious. Gold Rush. Can’t go wrong. Juice some lemon, mix some honey syrup – which is just water and honey, three parts honey, one part water – equal parts of your honey syrup and your lemon juice and a nice slug of whiskey. Shake it up, strain it over some ice, you’ve got yourself a very, very delicious cocktail.

Any particular whiskey you like to use?

It’s got to be a bourbon. The sweetness of the bourbon lends itself well, blends in with the honey. I’m not going to drop any brand names. Your favorite bourbon.

If you could only drink one more cocktail, what would be in the glass?

Like I had to drink one cocktail for the rest of my life, or my last one? That would be different answers.

Okay, then let’s do ‘em both.

If I could only drink one drink, I could be completely content with Gold Rushes, but for my final cocktail, I’d want something much more interesting and complex. I’d sip on one of my Curried Oaxacans. That’d be good.

Who would make the cocktails?

I’d have Julian make them for me.